Second Thoughts ~ Anne’s Question(s) Part IV – Love in the Time of Robots

Greetings Dear Reader,

This response will be brief as belaboring it would dull the point.  We all have a list of the evils that God would “prevent” if we doubt his existence and want to put him to the test.  Fill in the bland:  “A loving and just God would never allow ___________ .”  Whatever you choose, we will not agree on everything. 

If God agrees with you but not with me is he still just and loving?  What if he prevented the things on my list but not yours?  If we make an honest list would it not include everything that is not loving and just?  That is just one side of the coin.

Have you ever made your child give someone a hug that they did not want to hug?  Everything about their body language screams that they are not doing it in love.  God basis for everything is love.  He does not force us to love him back.  He does not turn us into robots who obey his every whim. 

Instead he loves us, even when we hate him or deny his existence.  He asks us to love him back and to love every other member of his creation.  In light of that he gives us free will and we choose to do evil and then blame him for allowing it.  We cannot say that we do not want God to force us to love him and say that free will is not a good explanation for evil in the world. 

I promised that I would not give simplistic answers and think I am keeping that promise.  Free will as an explanation for the reality of God is not simple.  It takes complex thought to see that the Father is such vast control of the universe that he has planned his response to every single choice we make.  Not only does he allow us to choose but has a remedy for all of our evil choices.  We simply do not have the perspective yet to see it.

Besides, if we were all evil robots would they not have to send someone to fight us?  And just to lighten things up a bit...

Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots Part 1 – The Flaming Lips

Her name is Yoshimi
She's a black belt in karate
Working for the city
She has to discipline her body

'Cause she knows that it's demanding
To defeat those evil machines
I know she can beat them

Oh Yoshimi they don't believe me
But you won't let those robots eat me

Yoshimi they don't believe me
But you won't let those robots defeat me

Those evil-natured robots
They're programmed to destroy us
She's gotta be strong to fight them
So she's taking lots of vitamins

'Cause she knows that it'd be tragic
If those evil robots win
I know she can beat them

Oh Yoshimi they don't believe me
But you won't let those robots defeat me
Yoshimi they don't believe me
But you won't let those robots eat me
Yoshimi

'Cause she knows that it'd be tragic
If those evil robots win
I know she can beat them

Oh Yoshimi they don't believe me
But you won't let those robots defeat me
Yoshimi they don't believe me
But you won't let those robots eat me
Yoshimi they don't believe me
But you won't let those robots defeat me
Yoshimi they don't believe me
But you won't let those robots eat
Yoshimi

Wishing you joy in the journey,

Aramis Thorn

Mat 13:52 So Jesus said to them, "That is why every writer who has become a disciple of Christ’s rule of the universe is like a home owner. He liberally hands out new and old things from his great treasure store.”

(͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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Second Thoughts ~ Anne’s Question(s) Part III

Greetings Dear Reader,

As I approach this for the third evening this week, I do so with a heavy heart.  The conjunction of dealing with this part of the topic and my current distress walk hand-in-hand to remind me just how far we are from what we could be as humans.  I am going to do my best to stay objective and kind but I will ask for a little forbearance in advance please.

When we ask if God is responsible for the evil that men do, we first have to identify what evil is.  In her question Anne gives us clear idea of what she sees as evil.  I do not disagree with I am simply making sure that we all remember the foundation of our journey together.  Here are Anne’s words again:

This is something that I don’t understand: what about all the truly horrible things in life? I mean things like wars, terrorism, exterminations, children dying, people and animals being tortured to death, you name it. How do you account for all that in respect to God?

In attempting to draw a line of responsibility for evil, we need to clearly define what evil is.  I am not playing with words here.  I have friends who think that rooting for the wrong sports team is evil.  Whilst this is a humorous example, it makes the point.  Evil, if left to subjective definition, is hard to define.  Here is something else that Anne posted that I feel is important to this thread.

Thank you, I appreciate your honest and open response. And to continue with complete honesty, as much as I want kindness to guide me more and more, loving my enemies is not something that I am capable of or even willing to do. For example, I could not love or respect a terrorist, and by that I mean someone who is willing to commit mass murder and is himself driven by hate and intent on inflicting pain. I could not love or respect someone who abuses children, the elderly, animals... No abuse of anyone really, but of course my thoughts first go to the most innocent of us. You, and anyone who follows me, also knows that I cannot love or respect our current president. And I even have no desire to change on these things. These are some of my limits.

This puts an important light on how we define evil.  Jesus said that we are required to love our enemies.  We are even told that if our enemy is hungry we are to feed him.  What I am getting at is the idea that we judge some people as unworthy of our love.  We may be angry at someone and withhold our love from them or we may see him or her as evil and judge that person as undeserving of love from anyone.

The difficulty with this as I see it is that if everyone chooses an individual standard for who is worthy of love then there will be justification for hating everyone.  Your standard of worthiness may not match mine.  You may be willing to withhold your love simply because you do not like something.  I am not saying that horrendous things that Anne said are not evil.  I am saying that the problem of evil cannot be addressed without an objective standard of who is and is not worthy of love.

If, therefore, we are going to have an objective standard then I submit that it must not be set by humans.  We will always find a way to now show love to someone.  It is what we do.  If, however, as I have written over and over again, we are going to love it must be unconditionally held, delivered, applied, and demonstrated.

Pause on this for a moment.  At what point of withholding love from someone else do we pass from being good to being evil?  Where is the line.  Again, if it is not drawn by God then it is elusive and inconsistent.  I cannot claim that someone is unworthy of love because of his or her actions making myself unworthy of love in the eyes of someone else.  If I say “but I am right and they are wrong” are they not going to say the same thing?

I am required not only to love everyone (friends, neighbors, family, strangers, enemies), I am also required to show them love through my thoughts, words, and actions toward them, no matter what it costs me.  I fail at this but it is still the standard.  I cannot say that I am a good person if it is not.

In light of this we need to understand that the summation must be that it is evil to fail to show love to everyone.  Withholding love or proclaiming anyone unworthy of love is an evil act on our part.  I will stop there for now because this is very weighty to consider.

Tomorrow we will begin to address the actual question of why God then allows evil to exist.  Stay with me and try to love me if you can Dear Reader. 

Wishing you joy in the journey,

Aramis Thorn

Mat 13:52 So Jesus said to them, "That is why every writer who has become a disciple of Christ’s rule of the universe is like a home owner. He liberally hands out new and old things from his great treasure store.”

(͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Contacts for Aramis Thorn:

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Second Thoughts ~ Anne’s Question(s) Part II

Greetings Dear Reader,

Anne has asked a question with which philosophers have wrestled since there were philosophers.  Let me say first, there is not a simple or easy answer.  There is an answer but it does not satisfy the human mind disinclined to faith.  I will not gloss over this but I must have more brevity than I would want to have.

If you want to do a deep dive on this try reading Confronting the Problem(s) of Evil

Biblical, Philosophical, and Emotional Reflections on a Perpetual Question by Joe Rigney.  It is well worth the time it takes to walk through his approach to this topic.  Here I would like to remind everyone of the first part of Anne’s questions:

This is something that I don’t understand: what about all the truly horrible things in life? I mean things like wars, terrorism, exterminations, children dying, people and animals being tortured to death, you name it. How do you account for all that in respect to God?

I am not going to take the path that I too often see where one tries to “justify” things based on the necessity for faith in God’s sovereignty.  I do believe that God is sovereign and that he is in control of all things.  I do believe that he has a universe that is unfolding as it should.  I believe that one of the problems is that we have too small a view of God.

I am not trying to play the “mysterious ways” card here.  My brother explained it quite well this way.  His younger son cut one of his fingers badly when he was quite small.  He cut it lengthwise from base to almost the tip.  At the time the injury was devastating and the worst thing imaginable to the small boy.  Today he does not remember the pain or the suffering.  We who are parents have all seen this play out. 

To the child the injury is all-consuming and I have seen my own children reject my help when they were small.  We cry out over the ills of the world from our perspective but do we really try to see them from God’s?  All of our current ills are part of the preparation for what is to come.  We are offered the opportunity to love each other now but eventually we will anyway. 

It is only part of the answer, but I truly think that when we either reject or accuse God based on the hurt we experience or see we are looking too small.  I do not view God as simply allowing things that are wrong in our eyes.  I think that we need to adopt an understanding that though God is not responsible for the existence of evil he is accountable for it. 

Before those who share my faith burn me in effigy or reality I am not saying that God is to blame but, rather, that he takes accountability for our sin.  He does this by loving us beyond the evil we do.  He does this by having an ultimate response in place for all that is evil in the world.  His response is to promise that “all things will be made new again,” that he will “judge and repay,” and that he “is not willing that any should perish.”  The entire process is to get things back to the “good” state that existed after creation and before we defied God. 

Another part of my brother’s response that is important here is the understanding that this life is not the life.  This world is not the destination.  We will talk about the nature of evil tomorrow but for now I would like you to dwell on this question Dear Reader:  Do you remember being in the womb or being born?  You see, we are in the gestation process for the life that is promised us. 

Please just remember that I am laying a slow foundation here.  Think through this a bit and tomorrow we will talk about evil proper.  For now, though, if there is any possibility that there is a God, then he is either all good or all evil.  I do not think an evil god would be able to give us good things.  I do think that a sovereign good God can allow us to create evil with our free will and have a plan in place to make even our worst work out for good.

Wishing you joy in the journey,

Aramis Thorn

Mat 13:52 So Jesus said to them, "That is why every writer who has become a disciple of Christ’s rule of the universe is like a home owner. He liberally hands out new and old things from his great treasure store.”

(͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Contacts for Aramis Thorn:

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Second Thoughts ~ Anne’s Question(s)

Greetings Dear Reader,

The other day my closest friend posted the following ~ “Wond’ring aloud: Do we really acknowledge that every good thing in our lives comes from God?”

Our mutual friend Anne, whom we both love and respect politely asked the following:

Michael, I think you know that I am agnostic but spiritual, and I value and respect life in all its forms, the earth, nature and animals. I respect all religions, cultures, and people’s right to believe what they believe. I cannot stand for hate or extremism in the name of religion in any camp. I cannot stand for cruelty. I am asking this respectfully. This is something that I don’t understand: what about all the truly horrible things in life? I mean thinks like wars, terrorism, exterminations, children dying, people and animals being tortured to death, you name it. How do you account for all that in respect to God? If prayers worked, why would we continue to have such atrocities in the world? Why would you pray for mundane, personal things and say how good God is because he answered a personal prayer. What about the truly important things? Why would God allow such cruelty to endure but care about little personal things in life? Again, I am being genuine and asking this with respect. How can we say God is good when we see a beautiful sunset for example and ignore all the evil and pain in this world? Where is God for these truly important things? I know you can answer about man’s free will or the Devil or God working in mysterious ways. But then why would God bother about little personal things but not major bad things? I really do not understand how this disconnect can be overlooked.

It would be disrespectful and dishonest to attempt to answer Anne passingly or without honest reflection.  We will discuss this and post responses here over the next few evenings. 

First let me respond to the things with which I completely agree.  Respect for life and other humans is vital to anyone who claims to believe that there is a God.  If anyone claims to follow Christ as I do, then respect for life and treating all humans with love is required.   Any hatred or violence associated with Jesus is a false representation of his teachings.  As a foundation to this discussion, one must accept that Jesus makes a few ground rules that we must agree upon to answer the harder calls in Anne’s query.

Jesus made it clear that if we say that we follow him then we must love our neighbors, our enemies, and treat them all with kindness, respect, and generosity.  Notice that Anne does this very well in her questions.  There is no disrespect in her honest desire to understand the way this is all reconcilable.  In fact, I would say that her questions reveal integrity and a desire for the truth. 

As we walk through this together please understand that I do not have all the answers.  For a deep dive on this I would recommend the book, Is God a Moral Monster by Paul Copan.  The problem of evil is one with which we must deal if we are going to be honest about God and his relationship to man. 

I am not going to offer any answers that are new or have not been addressed.  What I will do if offer a loving gentle response to hard questions about faith and following.  If you choose to participate in the discussion, please be aware no unkindness or harshness will be tolerated.  If you post a derisive comment it will be deleted.  If you treat anyone in the conversation with disrespect you will be removed from the conversation.

Those of you who share my faith, please pray that my responses are humble and kind.  Pray that I represent the truth well.  Thank you Anne for beginning this dialogue.

Wishing you joy in the journey,

Aramis Thorn

Mat 13:52 So Jesus said to them, "That is why every writer who has become a disciple of Christ’s rule of the universe is like a home owner. He liberally hands out new and old things from his great treasure store.”

(͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Contacts for Aramis Thorn:

Support Page on Patreon: www.patreon.com/aramisthorn

This BLOG:  http://aramisthorn.blogspot.com/ 

Novels on Amazon             

Web Page:  www.aramisthorn.com

Bookings at aramisthorn@aramisthorn.com

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Twitter            Medium    

Kids BLOG

Second Thoughts ~ Avengers Infinity War

Greetings Dear Reader,

Sometimes I will end the day with thoughts that are important to get out.  Usually I just write them and put them in my journal folder.  I have chosen that on occasion I will share them with you, Dear Reader.

NO SPOILERS YET

I successfully avoided spoilers when I was forced to wait a week to see the Avengers new movie.  My brother did offer that I would love Peter Dinklage in his role.  I will say no more than that prior to a spoiler alert.

What I will say is that this was an excellent film.  It is also long, so go easy on the 64 OZ Coke.  You may wish to make sure you have snacks if you drama-eat.  I would also choose a comfortable theatre.  The movie keeps building to the very end.

There is humor, tension, shock, and sadness.  It is a well told story filled with all of the right questions about what we value and why.  I would also recommend seeing it with someone.  You will have things to discuss afterward.  Please take care not to spoil it for anyone else.

SPOILERS FOLLOW:  YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

I find that the premise of this film raises many spiritual questions.  Given the vastness of the Marvel Universe there seems to be a question for me that is loudly begged.  Captain Rogers believes in the same God that I do as evidenced in the first Avengers movie.  That God, the God, is, however, left out of the story here.  Or is he?  

It seems to me that the ability of Thanos to destroy half of all lives in the universe is just a broader example of God allowing free will to play itself out.  In the end he snaps his fingers and kills half of all life.  There is even a web site (www.didthanoskill.me ) that will tell you if you were spared or killed.  For the record I survived.

If all sentient beings have free will and are subject to the nature of sin then it reasons that beings of great power would do evil on a cosmic scale.  It saddens but does not surprise me.  Ultimately, we are subject to the sovereignty of God.  We are free to do evil or good.  We all will face the same God that will judge us not on our deeds but our faith.

This story brings to light the potential of evil to prevail even in the presence of great good.  What it reminds me of is that ultimately good will win.  It does seem in Infinity War and in my world that good has lost for now but not, well, for good.

Wishing you joy in the journey,

Aramis Thorn

Mat 13:52 So Jesus said to them, "That is why every writer who has become a disciple of Christ’s rule of the universe is like a home owner. He liberally hands out new and old things from his great treasure store.”

(͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)