A Response from and answer to Just Curious, Part 2

Greetings Dear Readers and Just Curious,

This is part 2 of my response to Just Curious’ dialogue. Please read Part 1 and our initial dialogue earlier in this blog to get the full context. I value the questions that Just Curious is asking and feel all can benefit from an open discussion of these issues. You are all invited to participate.

Just Curious: Now that I've asked that question, which is foremost on my mind, this is the way that I see things. I still feel like I must attend traditional church to be doing the right thing based on what you've said. I also feel like many people before us have tried to, with love and humility; tell The Church that they must stop doing business as usual. And yet: Churches get fat, rich, and happy, they decide that the pastor is so great that he deserves to be making as much or more than a big business CEO, they package their product and sell it on TV or the internet FOR profit, whatever they might say to pretend that it's not for that, they get larger and larger by convincing people that it's their way or Hell, and decide to spend millions of dollars on fantastic new buildings, but fall short on their ministry budgets. Last, but not least, the normal way of doing things in this place where we're supposed to be learning better how to be like Jesus is to spoon-feed ideas to people without much discussion at all, and I know that Jesus was a fan of the sit down around the dinner table and talk about it method.

Aramis: I want to say that I hear and share your frustration with many of the things that happen in many churches. I do not think that you “must” attend traditional church in order to be doing what it right. There are some very non-traditional churches out there but they can be hard to find. I visited a true house church when I lived in the southern US and they entire point was to stay small, serve the community, and focus on Christ’s definition of who we are to become.

Many people have tried to do the right thing with love and humility. Does their failure mean that the command to be known by our love runs out of power? I do not think that loving people with humility ever loses its power. When Jesus commanded us to love one another and to be identified by our love for each other he was preparing to be crucified. To me making this statement to those who are about to abandon and deny you, just before committing the ultimate act of humility, being crucified for the sins of the world is the strongest argument I can find for continuing to try this approach. I think that the best way to stop the church from doing business as usual is to stay in it and do business unusual. I will speak more to this later.

You are correct that many, I would say even most churches are fat, lazy, money focused and not fulfilling the great commission. I would also say that even in really good churches about 10% of the people do 90% of the work. Jesus experienced the same thing. We know he miraculously fed 5000 people. We know he sent out 700 people to proclaim is his good news. It was the 12 and mores so the women with him who did most of the ministering. Amidst all of this he did not abandon the model but worked to restore it from within.

The commercialism of the church makes me ill. There will always be false teachers and those who truly “take the name of God in vain.” This does not mean say “God damn” but rather means to identify with God for one’s own purposes. I see this every day in the churches that are gilded and have become the modern day money changers. Alas, I also see it myself at times using Christ for my own purposes. As my pastor so often says, we are all crooked sticks. We should not support church leadership that uses Christ for their own purposes. We should do all we can to support church leadership that gets it right.

You are correct the Jesus is a fan of the one on one or small group discussion, but if you look carefully in the gospels there is a balance between that and the public forum. He did both and set a clear example of working within the church model to achieve the great commission. We must be individual workers all rowing in the same direction. We must also be a community. Paul spends a great deal of time telling churches how to behave. If all the people who get what he is saying leave the churches that are not behaving that way, or fail to support the leadership that gets it, how will we ever achieve change?

Just Curious: If we're to love people as Christ did, are we supposed to get angry with people the way that he did too, and isn't any group of leaders that do things this way a modern-day Pharisee?

Aramis: I think that anger at bad leadership is justified. The only time we are commanded to get angry about anything is in Ephesians and that command is coupled with the command to do so without sinning. Before I judge someone else as a Pharisee I need to be sure that I am not violating any of the other commands about dealing with those who offend me. Have I gone to them and told them face to face what offends me? Have I shown them the love that Christ promises will promote unity? I know that I have failed at times to both be and example and to love others beyond their failings. When I see something wrong, I am to attempt to restore the person doing the wrong in a sense of love and humility. There is a process for that.

A final thought. Christ commanded us to love over and over again. He never commands us to be angry but he does command us not to swallow the lies of the Pharisees. I am blessed with a church who’s leadership gets it. Many of the people do not. I will support the leadership and when given opportunity speak soft words of change to those around me. I hope that I have answered your questions Just Curious and I hope the conversation continues.

Wishing you joy in the journey,

Aramis Thorn, crooked stick in a bundle of crooked sticks