A Response to Just Curious

Greetings Dear Readers,

First I wish to thank “Just Curious” for his or her comments. They are honest and heartfelt with intelligent questions that deserve a reflective response from me. What I will try to do is respond in a conversational style without violation of what I perceive to be Just Curious’ context and intent.

Just Curious: Maybe this can open up a good discussion, maybe not.

Aramis: Yes it can. I admit that I am at times a pontificator and pundit but I try to both listen and hear. I always value feedback that is as thoughtful and well crafted as is this.

Just Curious: I just wonder how much Jesus spent time at his place of worship, rather, at the accepted place of worship. The Bible shows him there during the important festivals, but he had a different purpose then than we ever do at church.

Aramis: I would have to agree that Jesus had a different purpose when he was at the Temple than most of us do at church. I do, however, think that we should compare not the Temple but the use of Synagogues to the local church of today. Judaic historians date the rise of the Synagogue to the earliest settling of Israel by the Jews. Realizing that they wanted a local place to worship, the Synagogues were created. People did gather regularly and in many cases it was the center of the local community. It is clear that the Synagogue is not in any way as significant as the temple, but it is very important and was a regular part of Jewish life.

“Synagogues are not consecrated spaces, nor is a synagogue necessary for collective worship. Jewish worship can be carried out wherever ten Jews (a minyan) assemble. A synagogue is not in the strictest sense a temple; it does not replace the true, long-since destroyed, Holy Temple in Jerusalem.” (Wikipedia, synagogue)


Just Curious: He probably went there when he was a boy, and maybe his family insisted that he do this; maybe he chose to. All the same his real mission did not seem to include "going to church", unless you decide that his time with the outcast people in his country was just that. Perhaps he even kept the Sabbath in a divinely correct way, but does The Church do that in a normal service?

Aramis: Although all of this could be true, we have nothing to go on historically about what he did as a boy. We do know that Jesus knew the law and appears several times in the Gospels to acknowledge the gathering of his people. To conjecture that his family made him go is an argument from silence. If Jesus was asked to do something by his parents, he did it. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia points out that after the Babylonian captivity the Synagogues became the focal point of learning and interpretation of the law in local communities. (Zondervan)

It was common practice for all Jews to gather at Synagogue on Sabbath and Feast Days. It is reasonable to think that Jesus did attend Synagogue and was known there. Jesus says that he was in the temple teaching daily (Mark 14:49). The Gospels also point out that it was his custom to go to Synagogue on the Sabbath and that he was an active participant to the point that he was a Reader (Luke 4:16). To be a Reader in the Synagogue one had to be known there and chosen as reader by the minyan (Matthew Henry). We also see several times where Jesus is teaching in the Synagogue. Again to do this he had to be known and respected by the leaders of that Synagogue. I do not think that attendance was ever Christ’s mission but that using the existing tool to minister to others was.

Just Curious: I hear what you're saying about changing it from the inside, but what if the whole business has gone bankrupt and something totally new has to be done? What if the people that could change it from the inside are only hurt by trying to do so and give up totally, or simply volunteer in some small personal setting that lets them feel like a "different" cog without really reaching out to change the whole machine?

Aramis: Again I would look at the example of Christ. It is quite obvious that the Temple in Jerusalem and its leadership fit the definition of “bankrupt.” Jesus drove out the money changers and challenged the leadership but he never abandoned the Temple nor stopped attending Synagogue. We hear Jesus rebuke the Pharisees and Priests. We even hear Paul warn some of the churches how severe their corruption is. What we never hear in the New Testament is an admonishment to abandon the gathering of believers because they are too far gone. The transition from Synagogues to house churches was not because of true Christ followers needing to separate from the Synagogues but because they were driven out of the Synagogues by the leadership.

I can only use my church as an example, but the leadership there works every day in all they do to promote what Christ has called us to do. As to those who are only hurt by trying to work for change I would say that trying to move anyone from wrong to right practices yields some kind of hurt. It is not up to us to not get hurt, rather, we are to carry a cross and follow Christ. If we do what is right we will be hurt, but Christ will carry us through that hurt. Giving up or hiding is a response the Apostles had after the Resurrection. They went back to fishing and Christ had to chase them down and tell them to get back to work. All change involves risk. We must trust that God is good and that as Job said, “Though he slay me, yet will I serve him.”

Just Curious: Is there a reason why we shouldn't be open to a totally new way of doing things? Does it not suffice to gather in our homes with each other, or do we need to be in a traditional church?

Aramis: No there is not, but the wrong approach to a new way of doing things is why there is currently so much division in the universal church. Every division of the church since the first century is a direct result of someone’s hard heart. Someone refused to be humble, or understanding, or yield. Someone decided to separate or divide. Someone thought that they could not stay and work for peace through grace and holiness. I think that it does not suffice to gather in our homes. Jesus did not leave his local “church.” He made it clear that there is a physical touchstone for our gathering and worship. The writer of Hebrews points out that we are not to forsake assembling together and that it is more important as we see the Day of the Lord growing nearer. This gathering is the engine through which we demonstrate our unwavering faith and where we provoke each other to love and good works.

Just Curious: Where you're right that it's important to try to start change from the inside, I wonder, at what point do we say, "This has to stop."?

Aramis: I cannot answer the point at which this should be said. I can say that I would not dare say it to a body of believers without first earning the right to be heard by them. If a body of believers has leadership that we feel works with integrity then we must support what they do and not further divide things. We should speak to them at least before we abandon them. We should first say to them, in love and humility, “This has to stop.” We must also be willing to listen to their reply with teachable hearts yielded to the Holy Spirit.

To conclude, I think that Just Curious is on the mark about a drastic need for change in the way the church does things. I also think that this can be done without creating more separation and division. I have been deeply wounded by local churches. I have caused wounds as well. Some of the wounds on both sides would never have occurred had either or both parties chosen that no one would be outcast or rejected for their differences. Churches need to change. Loving the people in them as Christ loves them will work that change. I would much rather spend my Sunday’s with my children gathered around the Bible and mapping out how to reach a world that so desperately needs what we have in Christ. I am sure, though, that I can impact more people for Christ by getting up and being in a place where I know the pastoral staff at minimum has following Christ as their goal.

Thank you Just Curious for your comments. I hope I have answered well and that you see my love for your passion for right in those answers. I value your response and the continuation of this dialogue.

Wishing you joy in the journey,

Aramis Thorn